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Showing posts with label votes for 16-17 year olds. Show all posts
Showing posts with label votes for 16-17 year olds. Show all posts

Tuesday, 21 August 2012

A cry of frustration about process–and my reply


BarontorcTuesday, August 21, 2012

Am I just becoming exasperated or what? Tell me who controls the REFERENDUM?
What has it got to do with Cameron or any other UK mover and shaker if the 16/17 year olds alongside every other person in Scotland get the chance to offer their OPINION in that referendum?
If you're worried about shouts and screams from everybody and their aunties - where they have no locus and no say - so bloody what?
The VOTES will be counted in 2015 for Wastemonster and for Holyrood in 2016 - then and only then will the future for Scotland's people be decided - in Scotland and for Scotland.
If we keep going round in "what-if" circles - we'll end up - up our own bahookies!
Leave that to the sh** stirrers - they're very good at it.


You're just becoming exasperated, Barontorc. I feel that way too at times, but here is the reality – we control the referendum, but -

There are a number of ways to approach a country's independence, the main ones being  unilateral secession - either by violent revolution or velvet revolution - or by legal, democratic referendum followed by negotiation. Scotland has chosen the latter for the obvious reason that opinion is divided within Scotland and either of the first two options would create violent conflict within Scotland and suppression from outside of it.

What is proposed is a consultative referendum, i.e. one that is simply an expression of the will of the Scottish electorate and can be presented to the UK Government as such, and as a basis for negotiation. It is vital that that process be endorsed, as far as is possible, not only by those in favour of independence but also those opposed, both within Scotland and outside of Scotland.

The first requirement, an essential one,  is that the Scottish Government considers the process to be legal under Scottish and international law.

The second requirement – not essential but desirable in my view -  is that the process be regarded as legal under EU and UK law.

The third requirement – intimately related to the first two - is that the outcome of the ballot itself be beyond reasonable legal challenge.

Any discussions and any measure that contribute to the acceptance by all Scots that i) the outcome of the ballot is valid and ii) that the subsequent negotiations are conducted on a legitimate basis - and ideally the UK, the EU and the world community - are therefore well-worth pursuing.

All nationalists occasionally entertain fantasies of a Slovenian velvet revolution, where we just walk away from the UK and, after a brief kerfuffle, it is accepted. But that is a fantasy and there is no basis in the current Scottish mood for it happening.

So the occasional cries of frustration - including mine - are understandable, but ultimately unhelpful, other than to let off steam before returning to sanity.



Thursday, 26 January 2012

Referendum debate - votes for 16-17 year olds? - Not if Wallace and Lamont can stop them!

16 and 17 year olds can marry, enter the armed forces, have children - but they can't vote in the referendum, to help determine the future of their country, Scotland - the future that is in their hands.

The UK government, the Advocate General and the Leader of the Scottish Labour Party don't want them to vote - except in an AV referendum that nobody asked for and nobody wanted, the campaign for which was one of the dirtiest in a long time, and in which the Coalition 'partners' - Tory and LibDems fought like ferrets in a sack.

Anyone who thinks that the law isn't politicised in the UK should listen to Jim Wallace in this debate. An unelected Lord, a member of a party with 5 MSPs in Scotland - a party that, if there were a general election tomorrow, would be reduced to a rump in the UK - Lord Wallace is the legal watchdog of the Crown in Scotland.

And we know what he's watching for ...